. >> not only powell, but rumsfeld who was the defense secretary, he never asked rumsfeld or powell for sort of their bottom line recommendations. so i asked president bush why. why didn't you ask them? the true experts on war in iran and iraq. and he said, i know what they thought. now, as richard haass points out, how do you find out what somebody really thinks? you call them in and you sit them down and say this is -- they never had that discussion. the discussion, for instance, with powell was bush and powell and bush saying i've decided to go to war and this was in couple of months before the war started and powell was quite surprised to say the least. >> to say the least. seems to me, mika, the first people you want to go to before you make a huge decision like this are the people who disagree with you. >> well, yes. usually you do. look, i think there are some clear questions as to what happened before we even got there. and now ten years later, we look at the ramifications of what we've done there. and if it necessarily was in terms of keeping the balance and the entire region i